Sometimes you are just screwed. And sometimes you are double screwed becasuse you don’t have insurance.
Take this for instance. You are 27 and have no medical problems. You have 2 young kids that take up a lot of your time.You don’t smoke and keep pretty fit. You and your husband work but alas, your employers don’t offer insurance – thus you put off getting a progressive swelling in the area right above your clavicle and in your armpit. Finally, after a few months, it has become extremely painful, to the point that you can’t pick up your 2 year old. Your mom pesters you so you go to the ER.
You get a CT scan that shows you have a horrible collection of lymph nodes in your neck and chest consistent with lymphoma. Time to make some plans.
Ugh. Awful.
Now try and get an oncologist to see her. These folks end up coming back to the ER over and over. One, I had to keep tapping her chest to drain her effusion since her onc wouldn’t.
I’m so happy to live in Canada where the money/insurance issue wouldn’t even be part of the equation.
Tracey: Me too.
It changes the whole dynamic because when I’m sick I only have to worry about getting well, not how I’m going to pay for it.
That poor woman (and her family). The death panels have spoken.
the death panels?? WTF? Seriously? This is not health reform. This is how poorly we take care of people in the US.
Although the NHS is a lumbering, bloated paperwork-generating machine, it’s stories like this that make me thankful for it.
I admitted her so she could get worked up. As an outpatient through the clinic it would have taken her more than a month to get a biopsy and start treatment.
It still baffles me that the USA have about 50 million uninsured residents. Surely you are a quite wealthy and stable nation, why can’t you ensure that all citizens have (basic) coverage? It seems quite sad that Fox rambles on about communist health care plans while 44,800 deaths associated with lack of health insurance occur annually in the USA. (doi:10.2105/AJPH.2008.157685)
(Of course, I might be wrong here, not being a USA resident. )
Because people don’t make insurance coverage a priority. People spend their money on less important things because they don’t expect to get sick. Some people want national health coverage, but they don’t realize they could get coverage for less than what the government would steal from them. You can either make the choice yourself and get insurance, or you can have the government take more of your money and give you less than what you could have had. Make your choice.
It seems to me like an informal fallacy that the health care coverage would cost more if it was provided by the government. As far as I know the USA spend more money per capita on health care than other western (and non western) nations, yet lags behind in measures as life expectancy and child mortality. (Please note I don’t say government-provided health care coverage would be the answer: to be honest, I don’t know. I’m not by any means an expert on USA health care.)
@Elizabeth – Where is this cheap insurance of which you speak? Doesn’t exist on my planet. You don’t sound like someone who ever had to choose between medical bills and food. Try getting laid off, surviving on unemployment and attempting to swing a $$$$ COBRA payment while still paying for rent, utilities and food. If you can’t afford COBRA, no other insurer will touch you if actually have “preexisting conditions”. Just pray you don’t get sick while you’re looking for work. And, for more fun, once you land that new job, try managing on the lousy coverage offered through your employer. Less and less is covered each year, but your portion of the premiums keeps going up. And this is for 80/20 coverage. Guess what? 20% of a fortune is still a small fortune. I have had health care coverage of some sort for most of my life, and I am still swimming in medical bills. I cannot imagine what this poor family is going through.
Elizabeth, that may be a piece of the problem, but more commonly insurance providers refuse to provide coverage for people who have ANY chance of ever filing a claim; when workers lose work they lose coverage they can’t then afford to replace: and there you go. Folks in general don’t want to put themselves out for those who don’t have, so they like to find ways to blame them for not having.
Recently I saw an employer benefit I’d never seen before, major illness insurance. Basically it’s like AD&D in that it pays out a lump sum, but it pays out if the employee is diagnosed with a major illness or other expensive medical crisis. This is on top of normal medical insurance. It’s pretty telling that this sort of thing is now considered necessary.
I am so glad I don’t live in the US any more.
Another Canadian who has never had to worry about health insurance. Even at my poorest as a university student I was covered. I think my contribution was $5.00 every 3 months.
It seems so bloody inhumane that people do not get the care they need. Here if one gets a terrible disease we worry about the person and them getting better; not worrying about them getting better AND losing their home.
I lost my job right before going into a hospital for a month. I now owe upwards of $20K, which means we have to sell our house to pay for that. And since I have a doctorate, no regular job will even think of hiring me unless I lie on a job application. I have to wait until I can find a job that is ok with my education.
Our cobra payment would have been 150% of our house payment. Other than student loans, we had no other debt It took another month before we could obtain insurance for other sources.
So, don’t bather on about “choosing” to afford health care. For many of us, even those with an 8 year medical degree, can be found having to sell their houses to pay for things. Thank god we have a house to sell.
Elizabeth, I don’t even know where to start except to say that I am uninsurable privately because I have a very well controlled autoimmune illness.
And how the hell do you expect people making poverty level wages to afford health insurance on top of rent, food, clothes, heat…oh wait, heat is not necessary. And why don’t people just eat out of a dumpster? Sheesh.
Just fucking heartbreaking. Even with insurance she might have put it off, I imagine – you just think that stuff won’t happen when you’re that young.
To the Canadians—we all know the “upside” of your national insurance. What are the downsides? I hear of stories of people who have to wait very long to access tests or surgeries–even a few horror stories about delayed cancer treatments, so that these people are forced to come to the US for tests/treatments until they reach the top of the waiting list in Canada. Is some of this true in your experience?
So sad.
Emergent and acute cases will get treatment. Non-emergent surgeries or consults will go through a waiting period.
My brother found he had pancreatic cancer and was in within 2 weeks for the Whipple. Then had 1 year of chemo, etc. He’s now 2 years out from diagnosis and doing okay. Hasn’t worked since a couple of months before his diagnosis. Doesn’t owe a cent.
That is the kind of system the US needs. Unbearable financial pressure and insurance companies out to deny coverage for any little thing are NOT conducive to healing or mental health.
If a “little” nation like Canada can do it (1/10 your population), why can’t the US?
What a horrible thing for this family to go through, and as I understand, far too common.
Out of curiosity, since Canada has government health care, how much does a doctor, and other professionals pay in medical malpractice, administrative and legal costs? Also, what percentage of the medical tests costs are for product liability insurance?
Since I’m on a roll, what percentage of medical care is completely for indigent care and are there a tens of millions of illegal immigrants using the system without paying any costs?
Canadian here. For us,
we can see our family doctor the day we phone in for urgent matters (strep throat, bladder infection) and within a couple of days for other things (suspicious mole, to discuss heavy periods, for instance). My husband had 2 gallbladder attacks and saw the surgeon within 1 week and had surgery 2 weeks later (that might be unusual since she had openings just before our Thanksgiving).
I’m not a doctor so I don’t know about medical malpractice insurance, but it’s bound to be way, way lower than sue-happy US rates. I’ve also no idea about how much is spent on indigent care. Every person legally living here has a health card so anyone can be seen and treated with no cost. Our province has a nominal medical tax (about $100 for our family yearly), but many have none. And it’s income-linked so the poor pay nothing. Our province also has a drug plan for catastrophic expenses (you pay quarterly up to a cap and the gov’t picks up the rest of the bill–this is for people who have very large prescription bills, not average people—and many people have that coverage at work already).
This sounds pretty parallel with my moms story. My dads insurance hardly covered anything so none of us got regular check-ups. My mother had a lump develop on her right arm. Put it off until it was too painful. Got check, only to find out it was stage 4 sarcoma. At that point she was classified under uninsurable because it became a preexisting. My mom struggled for the last five years, losing her arm altogether only to pass away in January of a slow and painful death. If she would have been allotted the care she needed early on without a doubt i know she would be alive today. Great US OF A RIGHT!?
@Tracey H.
This is assuming you can find a family doctor-some areas have a huge shortage. I have been waitlisted for almost 2 years (since graduating university and losing access to the health clinic there). I live in a small city without even a walk-in clinic (there is a very limited day clinic which is appointment only- you have to make your appointment the day of, and they usually fill up within 20 min of opening in the morning). I recently had surgery for a very large ovarian cyst, and waited 4 months from when it was diagnosed to have the surgery. The disparity in access across Canada is a huge issue!
Really, Canadians?
http://www.santemontreal.qc.ca/en/infoexpress/urgence.html
http://www.calgarybeacon.com/2010/12/read-them-yourself-shocking-emails-catalogue-alberta%E2%80%99s-emergency-room-crisis/
http://albertadiaryfootnotes.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/emergencyemails.pdf
Another thing: What percentage of total revenue does the Canadian healthcare system consume? Is it sustainable? If not, where are the cuts being made?
There is always the option of taking private insurance as well for those with the money to do so. I don’t have it on principle as I know that in a serious situation I will always get the care I need. It may not be perfect, e.g. I may be left with a limp cos the phsyio wasn’t perfect after a broken leg or whatever. I’ve had bad experiences with specialists with the chronic autoimmune disease I have which is not life-threatening but downright inconvenient and, untreated, painful and very disabling – it wasn’t dx’d, I was messed about. But I do a great deal with support forums for our “orphan disease” and the biggest problems are cited by patients in the USA who have insurance but can’t find a rheumy within miles or are messed about worse than I was.
I do know one thing though: I will never be left penniless or homeless as a result. Once dx’d I got the pred that is the only solution to our problem until it “burns out” or decides to go into remission.
My system? European, the UK (and here in Italy it is similar, affordable/no charge at the PCP basic health care. There are bad stories – but so there are in the US for people WITH cover. Some are sob stories looking for someone to offer a trip to the US for their “op”. Or hoping the gutter press will pay them for “their story”.
And if I’m unemployed for whatever reason? Still have cover. The horror stories are the exception – it’s not perfect but neither is any other system. And once you have a medical history getting even holiday medical insurance cover is difficult. I can holiday anywhere in the EU and a few other countries and not have to worry about a massive healthcare bill if something goes wrong. I will never go to the ER and end up with a massive bill for tests “just in case” in the CMA house of medicine.
In the U.S. over 90% of personal bankruptcies are to to medical bills.
Note, by the way, that part of “Obamacare” is that insurance companies can’t exclude pre-existing conditions. Yup, that’s definitely an infringement of my civil liberties. I must protest!
(As the parent of a chronically-ill child, and being one job away from being uninsurable, I’m grateful.)
“Obamacare” and the PCIP (pre-existing condition insurance plan) have saved my life. I am “permanently and completely disabled” (that’s a stock phrase, not one I’d ever come up with!) and live on private disability that amounts to 60% of my 2001 salary (it will never be adjusted for cost of living increases). I maintained my BCBS policy until they raised my monthly premium to $1513 – on top of the $5000 deductible. I had under $1000 a year in “salary” left to me. I have a mortgage and the usual bills, plus have to support my partner because he is my caretaker… Were I “just” disabled, things wouldn’t be quite so scary, but now I have some troubling active illnesses to deal with. The market wasn’t generating enough glittery wealth for me to manage, so I had to let my insurance lapse. The insurance commissioner judged that BCBS essentially priced me out of coverage, a real coup for them. Anyway, PCIP has allowed me to pay one-third of what BCBS demanded and is clearly run more efficiently than its “private” counterpart. It’s not charity and I am tired of explaining to critics that I deserve a chance to insure myself!
Heather, you’re absolutely right. Far too many of us don’t have family doctors. That’s something our gov’t does have to do something about. We need to graduate more doctors and retain them (too many head to the US for bigger wages, especially because of high student debt). I like the Liberal’s plan of forgiving debt to doctors who’ll practice in rural/northern areas for 10 years. Odds are, many will stay when that time is up.
As a Canadian never having lived in the US I have no idea really about any system but the one we have.
Yes, in smaller communities it is hard to find a doctor that will take your family. Apparently many leave to make the big bucks in the USA (as a friend of mine did when her husband decided to move to Wisconsin where he could make more $$).
However this does not mean you do without doctors treatment at the after hours clinics or walk in clinics in my community. Thankfully I have a regular doctor for my family which took me a month to find when I decided to switch doctors. Doable where I live.
What I do know is that my current doctor leaves a certain amount of appointments for urgent care each day and if any of us have one we will be seen promptly. Otherwise I have not had to wait more than 3 days for an appointment for most anything.
I know that we do not pay the equivalent of our mortgage payment for health insurance and indeed my husband’s employment covers us for extended health (he is a fire fighter). Through his position we are also entitled to any RX’s with an 80% deductible.
Mammograms are free and the BC Cancer agency seeks YOU out to remind you to get one.
Yes, I have heard complaints from some about wait times for non-urgent surgeries. Thankfully though anything urgent is bumped forward and dealt with first.
I am sure our health care system needs improvement, but grateful that everyone is entitled to the same level of care regardless of income. People do not expect a disease to financially bankrupt them, nor do they pay outrageous fees monthly in health insurance.
I have a friend in the US who pays $1,500 a month to insure her family of four for the most basic of health needs. To me this is completely foreign. And scary.
I’m 27 with 2 young kids and no insurance (for my husband or myself, kids are covered). That sucks…and it is scary.
As long as the easiest way for an insurance company to make a buck is to pay someone $9 an hour to disallow a $10 claim, the U.S. healthcare system will be a clusterfuck.
All the salaries are going to hospital administrators battling insurance administrators in a pointmess game of hot potato and none to, you know, doctors and nurses battling disease.
In addition to the insurance hot-potato game, there’s a whole second source of inefficiency as people who are are being hounded by bill collectors turn around and claim malpractice to try to dicker the bill down. Which gets lawyers rich rather than people who actually make people well.
And this in turn leads to CYA medicine, which is a third source of inefficiency.
Medicine is hard enough without all this extraneous bullshit.
One note on that 90% figure upthread–that’s some very bad “research”. What they actually found was that 90% of bankruptcies included at least one recent medical bill.
While the problem is very real the efforts to inflate the size of the problem are counterproductive because it gives the deniers a bunch of poor examples to use to tar the real uninsurables with.
This kind of thing is exactly why the affordable care act needed to happen. Romney’s comment that America doesn’t let the uninsured die because “they can still go to the ER and get treatment” was the most idiotic thing I’ve heard anyone say. Occasional ER visits for strep throat or a broken arm will not catch cancer before it’s stage 4 and terminal. That’s why preventative care is necessary. Nobody, regardless of employment status deserves to die a slow, painful death from cancer that could have been prevented had it been caught early enough.